Defending More Than Goals: Rüdiger’s Drive to Uplift Through Sport

Antonio Rudiger: That's what we talk about leadership: it’s to use your power, because sports unites. It doesn't matter…women, boys, everyone together just to have an equal chance to fulfill something in their life... And I want this so bad.

Makhtar Diop: Welcome to another episode of Creative Development with IFC. I’m Makhtar Diop, Managing Director of the International Finance Corporation. Today I am joined by a true football icon, Antonio Rudiger. Antonio is a two-time UFA Champions League winner and a key player for Real Madrid, and the German national team. But his impact extends far beyond the pitch. With a deep commitment to social change, Antonio uses his foundation to make a meaningful difference in Sierra Leone. So, Antonio, it's a huge pleasure having you on this podcast for what you represent as a player, as a human being. Let me start from the beginning. You grew up in Neukölln?

Antonio: Yes. Neukölln, yes that’s right.

Makhtar: You always refer to Neukölln as being the start…what happened in Neukölln? 

Antonio: It's always important to remember where you're from. I think this is very, very important. This is what my parents always taught me. I should not be ashamed of who and what I am and where I'm from. So that's why I always refer to Neukolln because it shaped me who I am today.

Makhtar: There is a saying in Senegal, I'm from Senegal. In Wolof we say, “when you don't know where to go, go back from where you're coming from.”

Antonio: 100% I agree.

Makhtar: Neukölln as you describe it was not an easy place. How did it help you in your life? The life that you have there. 

Antonio: It was everything but easy, but, you know, thank God I came out of it, and I've seen also a different type of life. And somehow, sometimes, not sometimes, mostly, I miss the past because …we were rich in togetherness. We were rich…as a human, we were very rich. We helped each other, we look after each other. And this was more than today. Today is a bit, it's a bit like, yeah, everyone for himself, basically. And so that's why, for me, I have the good things to compare.

Makhtar: It's interesting. I was reading one of your interviews and you were saying that really richness is relative. Your parents were saying that the most important thing is peace, peace is a richness. And I think that it was something that you have been talking a lot about

Antonio: No, 100%. Like this is, this is all given by my parents. Like in Europe, you kind of sometimes tend to do what you think for yourself, because, like at home is one thing, but if you go down the streets, because you have to be strong outside. So you have to find the golden middle. But with me, always what was very important, like, yeah, because my parents always preached to me peace is the rich is the richest asset you can have as a human being.

Makhtar: And you said that in the same interview, that when you left home and your mom was very sad, as every mom will be seeing a son leaving home, you told her, you told her that one day we will be back together. So, what did you mean at that time, when you were young, going to your first professional club? 

Antonio: It was always my dream, because, let's say it like this, like, I just always wanted my parents out of the so-called ghetto. I wanted them to experience something different, to have just a good life. I'm not talking about earning so much money, no. Like, this was not in my head. I just wanted them out of a bit of poverty. And that's why for me, like, when I left, yeah, my first promise to my mother was because, as I'm a boy, so I'm a mama's boy, so I'm very close to my mother. So I promised her, like, yes, then things, things will change in the future, and I'm going by God willing, I'm going to change it. And yes, I just got the blessing from my father. Because in my culture, this is the most important thing - to get the blessing of your father. And he told me, you are a man, this is what you decide. So, this is the way you have to behave. And yeah, he said, “Go and find your way.”

Makhtar: Sometimes people like you and I who are African, especially West African, when we talk about our parents, people are looking at us as if we are still children, okay? And they don't understand what it means for us. Spell it out again, for people to understand why it means so much for us.

Antonio: Sometimes I didn't listen, and it came exactly how my parents said. So that's why, since then, I said, no, if your parents don't agree with anything, this is how it is. Just follow your parents, because I rather have my parents with me than against me. So that's very, very simple.

Makhtar: So it's interesting, because I will give you another saying in my culture which exactly reflect what you say. In Wolof we say “older men sitting can see further than a young man standing.” 

Antonio: We speak about, we speak about experience. Of course.

Makhtar: So now, family was so important for you and you, you went to a world where you didn't have this protective environment of your parents who were looking after you. You were left to yourself and faced, you know what a lot of people have been facing, at least in our community. You face racism in different places. So how did you deal with that, and how your experience has been helping you to be resilient in addressing this challenge?

Antonio: You know, like to be honest in those days, as I said, when I was a young boy, for me, the feeling was like there was no racism, because you had Arabs there, you had the Black people there, you had everything there, but not really Germans. You don’t really have Germans. So we couldn't speak with each other. But one thing, what reunited us was football. This speaks one language, so just when I get older and older, then I start to yes, see that society has a bigger problem with my color. So, and not only in sports, we talk about society. Because to be very honest, I am in a comfortable situation, because we need to speak not about me. We need to speak about those ones who get racist abused and it don't get reported. About those we have to speak. Not about me, because me, yes, we speak about it one, two days - done. But we need to speak to people who are on a daily basis on the ground, and they receive something different than for sure, than I do. That's why I am pushing so hard, for education, for example, because this is based down to pure education. What is more important is the youth. Them you have to educate. And I think this is a huge challenge but we will not give up. That’s very simple. And then sometimes you have to ask yourself, like systematically. Because I think like if the system goes harder against these people, then I’m very sure these things will stop. 

Makhtar: When we watch you as a soccer fan on the pitch, you are a real leader. Do you remember feeling that as early as under 15 and 12 categories you were already the leader of the team?  

Antonio: No, to be honest, I've grown into that. I've grown more into that, because in the early stages, like, I would say, like, there were some people, they didn't like me for whatsoever, reasons. I think for me, the most important thing is what my dad told me, the first way to own success is to be happy for other people, because you don't know how that person suffered to get where he is today.

Makhtar: This is very powerful, because it shows a lot of altruism and generosity. So what you're telling me is that to be a good leader, or to be able to lead people, you need to have that generosity.

Antonio: Yes, like you need to. You need to accept that sometimes things is green, sometimes things is white. You have to find that's, of course, that's the that's the most difficult part in life to find the golden middle. But I think if you have common sense, with time, time will tell you that you are right.

Makhtar: So tell me, what are the two or three big - you know, if you have to look at your career -  the two, three big games or events that just took you emotionally to the next level? 

Antonio: To be honest, I would say very honest, like my first World Cup game, like when I played for Germany the World Cup. Like I was very, very nervous. That was in 2018 and I was very, very nervous, like, really, like, it's the last time I've really been nervous. The only other times I was more nervous was when my daughter was born and when my son was born, because this gets me very emotional, you know. But yeah, the Champions League with Chelsea. And then, of course, here with Real Madrid the Champions League last year, that was a huge thing for me, yeah.

Makhtar: What you project for people who are watching you from outside is a lot of sincerity. And I think that is an important quality for a leader.

Antonio: Yeah, I think, I think it's just being natural. It's just being you and don't, don't try to imitate somebody, because we all are special for ourselves. And I think this is something people need to learn, just to be natural, just to be yourself.

Makhtar: You followed your parents. But in addition to your parents, what helped you in your journey of getting this kind of serenity?  

Antonio: I have my circle around me, and I care about these people, their opinions, and they have to be very honest to me, because we all know the truth hurts, the truth hurts. But only like that you can improve. So sometimes you have not, sometimes, always, you have to say the truth. You have to say the truth. And I live by this code. 

Antonio: That's why, for me, when people from outside speak when they see me on the pitch doing things. They say stuff like ‘Ah, he's like that. He's like that’. For me, it's okay. My kids they know who I am. My people know who I am. And for me, the most important thing is, if I look in the mirror of the night, I know who I am.

Makhtar: You have a foundation, and you want to help - through sports, through education - amputees, people who have been victims of war and so forth. I would like people to know about your foundation and the work that you are doing,

Antonio: You just broke it into the three most important points, and that's education, sports development and health and wellness. So, because it's like, for example, like for myself, the path that I had in Europe when it comes to education, it was top standard. It was top standard. And for me myself, if I look go back home and see schools, it will touch you 100% and that's why for me myself, because I always spoke with my parents about it, about Sierra Leone, because in school in Europe, nobody will educate me about Sierra Leone. It’s different. So I had to learn for myself and who are the best people for me to be in this environment: its my parents. So that's why. And then also flying over there, make your own view of things. And then I came to the conclusion. It was like: hey, you have a kind of power to change things. And this, is for me, very important: to use - not misuse -  your power. No, make use of your power to do good for other people.  

Makhtar: You talk about education but you talk about it through sports.

Antonio: For example, like, because it's like, everywhere you go in general, not only Sierra Leone, in Africa, everywhere they play football. But they don't have the facility, like for example, I have here, or the system of youth to make them one day dream about becoming professional just like me. So this is the narrative we have to change. And if it's that I have to topple, to be honest, to topple the system a bit, I'm ready to do that, because that's what we talk about leadership. People look up to me, and I know this, as I said, is to use your power, because sports reunites. It doesn't matter unable, women, boys, everyone together just to have an equal chance to fulfill something in their life. And it doesn't have to be only football, because I like also basketball. I like boxing. I like UFC. Because in Africa, we have so many talents, but we have to promote them. And I want this so bad.

Makhtar: I was lucky to do a lot of sports when I was young, and sports has been an important part of my life. I always refer to sports. I give example to my colleagues here. You know, when I was competing in karate, my sensei at that time was telling, ‘don't come and complain about the referee’. And he was telling me something very interesting, because when you are doing martial arts, and when you get your black belt, you are very proud. And then he asks you what is a belt for? And you try to talk about it. He says, “the belt is just to hold your uniform, no more than that”. 

Antonio: Of course. True. It’s just a symbol. 

Makhtar: What is important is what is inside. Sport teaches you a lot of these kind of things that. And you know it's been decades, but they still stay in your mind. And they shape you.

Antonio: 100% And for me, discipline is number one when it comes to that.

Makhtar: Yeah, yeah. So tell me now, what is the next step on your foundation? Do you have any things that you are working on right now?

Antonio: Yes. Because, like I said I know my power, and I have good partners, for example, with FIFA, with my Qatari people and, and I hope so with you guys, with the IFC, so that we can move forward on things. Because I want things to happen. Bring powerful people together and seeking, of course, in the want attention of all the people who wants to help. And I think this is very important. 

Makhtar: We are currently trying, us, to invest in infrastructure. We have invested in a fund which is investing in arenas in Africa, and now they are developing the basketball African League, the BAL and they're looking for venues to be able to do to play in different countries. Currently there are only three or four countries where you have arenas which are standards that can host really. So we are investing in a fund. And the idea is now to have private sector investors invest in those arenas which actually will be multi-purpose arena, because they can be used for shows, concerts. And so we are working with some investors on that, and more and more to look at the business side of sports, also to develop it on our continent yes. So Antonio, it's such a pleasure, an honor talking to you.

Antonio: Pleasure is mine. Is mine. Thank you for your time.

Makhtar: Thank you for listening. Creative Development with IFC is produced by Lindy Mtongana, Aida Holly-Nambi, Maeve Francis and  for IFC. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your network and tell a friend.